Monday, March 06, 2006

Unsatisfactory Situations

(I wrote this essay for a final examination last quarter. I'm afraid I find myself between a rock and a hard place on this issue. I'm too liberal for ol' Jimmy Dobson and I'm a shade to conservative for, say, Archbishop Rowan Williams [does anyone else struggle not to call him Rowan Atkins?] I hope that it will generate conversation, though, and that my position will be challenged, buttressed, dismantled or tweaked as you, noble readers, deem appropriate. It may be of interest to note that all three arguments I attempt to refute are the professor's position on the issue and the apologies I call for stem from said professor's faux pax in class.)

I should begin this essay with a statement of affirmation for the CRC’s position on the issue of homosexuality. I do believe that we are called to love people and hate sin. Trouble is, I don’t think that we, as a denomination, are living up to our own precept. Annie Proulx writes in a short story about two gay cowboys who live double lives as socially conventional husbands and fathers all the while carrying on a secret homosexual relationship of great intimacy and depth. Near the end of his life, the one man turns to the other and says, “What we have here is one god-damned bitch of an unsatisfactory situation.” I think this is exactly where the CRC denomination finds itself today.

For example, we invite “non-practicing homosexuals” as full members of our ecclesiastical communities. What does it mean to be a “non-practicing homosexual”? Is it possible for someone to not practice his or her sexuality? I haven’t been on a date since June; does this make me a non-practicing heterosexual? Obviously, we don’t talk in these terms about heterosexuality, how can we insist on such categories in relations to homosexuality?

It is precisely this request that people of same-sex attraction somehow turn off their sexuality that leads to depression, loneliness and confusion. One in three teen suicides or suicide attempts is committed by a teen struggling with their sexuality. And many homosexual persons who struggle with the onset of depression are also those who are simultaneously attempting to live chastely within the perimeters the church has laid out for them.

I will briefly refute three faulty reasons, given, I believe, in good faith, for maintaining the CRC’s position on homosexuality and then provide my own alternative rationale.

1) Some argue that sexual desire and anatomy is given for the procreation of children ergo out of line for homosexual persons. It logically follows, then, that fulfilling sexual desire is also out of bounds for all people using birth control (can I get an amen from the Roman Catholic contingent?) and women post-menopause. This argument fails to embrace that sexuality is more than sexual desire and anatomy. Sexuality permeates every relationship from the first time you took a shinin’ to that special someone on the playground to every friendship between persons of opposite and, even, same sex. Celibate homosexual Roman Catholic priest and academic, Henri Nouwen argues that our sexuality, especially when it entails unfulfilled sexual desires, gives us energy toward God’s Kingdom tasks. Our sexuality is about more than desires, which find consummation in procreation.

2) Some argue that homosexuality is hopelessly narcissistic because it does not embrace “the other.” This requires a narrow definition of “the other” as someone XY vs. XX chromosomes. Suppose that it is an interracial homosexual relationship – is that “other” enough?

Cornelius Plantinga, in his book, Not the Way Its Supposed to Be: A Breviary on Sin, makes a crucial distinction between lust and love. Lust is self-gratification whereas love is self-giving. Although it would be convenient, let’s not delude ourselves. Heterosexual relationships are fallen too and therefore easily deteriorate into self-gratification and narcissism. Likewise, two persons of the same sex are capable of self-giving love. To assert otherwise only demonstrates a failure to really know and seek to understand persons with same sex attraction.

3) The argument from natural law and inherent consequence of disease for homosexual persons is fallacious, to say the least. This argument only concerns anal sex. A recent survey by Glamour magazine tells us that 35% of women ages 25-44 have engaged in anal sex. This practice is, therefore, not unique to homosexuality. Secondly, the people least likely to get an STD are lesbians living in monogamous relationships. This seems, then, by the same criteria, to support homosexuality, not refute it. Third, looking globally, the people most likely to get AIDS today are not homosexual men but married, faithful women and children. Drawing a correlation between disease and homosexuality is simplistic and, in a word, wrong.

Okay, now that we are clear on how I am not going to argue in support of the CRC’s position on homosexuality, what’s left? What am I saying? What arguments still hold water in my opinion?

The primary argument I am making is from creation order. In Genesis 1:27-28, we hear that God has made male and female in God’s image. There is something about the masculine and the feminine together in relationship that, ultimately, images the Divine. This is worth fighting for. (Side note: this church could do a much better job defending this if they, once again, lived up to Synodical precedent, and defended the feminine inherent in the Divine.) Secondly, Ephesians 5 re-emphasizes the primacy of man and woman in relationship as the image of Christ and the Church. But this image is far from a new creation at the hand of Paul. Hosea invokes it, as does Solomon in his popularly libidinous song. This, too, is worth fighting for.

Beyond creation order, or rather, in fleshing out creation order, we have Scriptural prohibition (Romans 1, I Cor. 6, etc.) Exegetes have, in true exegetical fashion, worked some slight of hand to diminish these passages and their relevance for us today. Lauren Winner writes about this phenomenon in her book, Real Sex: The Naked Truth about Chastity. She contends that it is only in the context of creation order and broader, Scriptural metanarratives of covenant and kingdom that these imperatives make sense.

I do believe, therefore, that homosexuality is a result of the Fall because it was not present in creation order. Problem is that homosexuality is not the only distortion of sexuality. This is a truth for which the church has some apologizing to do. All to infrequently, have we failed to place ourselves under the same scrutiny and condemnation that we use on our homosexual brothers and sisters. When/if we preach against homosexuality, it ought to be in first person plural rather than second or third person.

That is the first apology we owe. The second is this: we have fallen victim of James Dobson’s Fetish on the Family and afforded very little respect to celibacy as a holy and viable lifestyle choice. Laura Smit writes eloquently on this point in her book, Loves Me, Loves Me Not: the Ethics of Unrequited Love. It is ironic how quickly the church jumps on Paul’s bandwagon in Romans 1 or on issues against women in office yet fails to live as though Paul actually meant what he said in Romans 7. Speaking as a celibate, single heterosexual I see the advantages and disadvantages of my current state. On the Saturday nights when the disadvantages seem weightier than any supposed advantages, I can always console myself, “well, this isn’t forever.” My single, celibate homosexual friends have no such recourse to comfort.

The third and final apology the church owes to her homosexual members is our failure to keep our word. We have promised to love people and then use rhetoric of “insanity” and “suicidal.” We call homosexuality “an agenda of death.” Henri Nouwen would disagree and yet he would not be welcomed into our churches despite the fact that he abided by Synodical precedent. This inhospitality is our sin, not theirs. So I adhere to Synod’s decision but that doesn’t absolve me from feeling its inherent tensions. This is, ultimately, a “god-damned bitch of an unsatisfactory situation.” We are asking a costly discipleship from our homosexual brothers and sisters, one that I am uncertain we would be willing and/or able to match. To sit high on the vantage point of invisible heterosexual privilege is not Incarnational or Christlike. By all means, let’s abide by Synod’s decision but let’s never pretend that it is an easy, comfortable answer. We don’t have it all figured out yet.

39 comments:

Leighton said...

Why listen to the Synod?

Alice Clay said...

So much to say on this topic, but don't have the time at the moment. But I do want to make one note on the idea of "love the sinner, hate the sin."

It's too simplistic. Christians might adhere to this in relating to homosexuals. But homosexuals perceive their sexuality as part of who they are, not what they do. Thus, many are suspicious that Christians are engaging in a relationship only to convince them of their sin and convert them to something they are not (heterosexual).

a sister and friend said...

Hi Meg,
The collect for Ash Wed. begins by addressing the God who despises nothing s/he has made. And as Alice Clay says, that does mean who I am, all of me, the complete and total package.
The thing that most straight people will never wrestle with is that God does indeed make homosexuals. S/he made me and I am not ill, malformed, or a mistake. Questioning one's theology on this issue or any other is an intensely painful and unsettling task and most will not undertake it because 1) it doesn't affect them personally--at least with regard to this issue, 2) it is much easier and more comfortable to adhere to rules than to follow our Lord.
We're going to go round and round on this issue for many years to come and I cannot pretend to know where we'll end up. What I am absolutely convinced of though is that when we face God the question will not be whether we got it right and held "orthodox" beliefs but whether we loved God with all we possess and loved each other with the same passion we love ourselves.
Keep asking the questions, worry less about the answers, continue in the love that is pure grace.
Blessings to you!

Brandon said...

Have you watched the Lew Smedes video? For me (and the Real Live Preacher) it basically pushed me over the proverbial edge.

Here's the link:

http://www.soulforce.org/article/lewis-smedes-video

Anonymous said...

Sexuality is always and already a contentous issue, one that sparks much debate and confusion. Take, for instance, my Pastoral Care class this past week. The topic was sexuality and birth control -- and all too quickly the class spun out of control, with a member of the class saying "it is the responsibility of those who are ordained to NAME sin," whereupon the class descended into chaos. It was then the professor stopped the class from getting too out of hand.

These topics are confusing and not clear, but what is to say that we all have to agree about everything here? Can't we, as Christians, be content to live in a place where not everything is already decided?

Homosexuality is THE issue of the church right now. It is always with us; and people use this issue to define whether someone is "conservative" or "liberal." When issues are so divisive, how do we address them? From the pulpit? From the classroom? In the context of friendships? How can we measure the effects of these discussions? I really hope that the CRC statement on homosexuality does not keep people away from the church, people who are in need of the saving love of God in a sinful world.

Carlos said...

"Creation order" can be tricky. If you abide by that theological term or teaching then you are also arguing for patriarchy. Adam first then Eve… men at the top of the list, women come in second.

In addition, our professor failed to assign readings where our Synod’s decision has been questioned via research and evidence. According to our Synod, there is no evidence that same sex relationships are in anyway a benefit to the couple (thus it is a sin). An article was released in the past ten years or so that argues that there is evidence that such a relationship is beneficial to the couple.

In addition, from all that I have read, the New Testament prohibitions on homosexuality deal more with prostitution and pedophilia. See homosexuality is not the only form of sexual issues that is admonished by the Old Testament. To name a few the Old Testament speaks out against sex with menstrual women, states that human semen is a source of impurity and punishment (to have sex with a woman who has her period is to be barred from heaven forever, i.e. you go to hell, that is what it means in the Old Testament when it says you will be cut off, funny homosexuality is less of an offense than having sex with a menstrual woman). These things the Church turns a blind eye to stating they do not pertain to us. But the Old Testament allows a man to marry his niece, it permits what we would now call pedophilia, permits men to have several wives, it permits a man to sleep with a prostitute, and it also permits men to have concubines and to commit adultery against their wives (it is only adultery for a married woman to have sex with another man). In fact no where in the Bible does it say one cannot have sex before marriage. Interestingly these acts the Church frowns on but forgets that the Gospel only speaks out against divorce. So why then does the Church refuse to allow same-sex marriage when it permits divorce, which is specifically denounced by Christ himself? Why refuse gay marriage when the Church abolished the rest of the sexual purity laws? If you are to say that we keep the moral law of the Old Testament, then that means that those who engage in sexual activity during the menstrual cycle are doomed to hell and must stop now. It means that men can marry young girls. Hey it is permitted by the moral law!


Also there is the issue behind the Gospel story in Matthew 8:5 about the Centurion who goes to Jesus to ask him to heal his servant and Jesus does so. Well there are translating problems here. From what I have read this passage is suspicious since most translate the person who the Centurion worries over as his "servant boy." Now if this was an actual servant, the word would be doulos. But the word used is pais, which refers to lover.

Good articles/ books and authors to read on this subject are Walter Wink “The Homosexual and the Bible,” David McCarthy Matzko “Homosexuality and the Practice of Marriage,” David G. Myers’ “What God Has Joined Together,” and an article that Brian recommends by Stanley Hauerwas “Resisting Capitalism: On Marriage and Homosexuality.”

Brandon said...

Carlos,

The divorce / homosexuality thing is exactly the tact Lew Smedes took in the video I referenced!

a sister and friend said...

Here's a link by Sarah Dylan Breuer, editor of The Witness, on the theology of sexuality with specific reference to "creation order."
Thought you might find it interesting... :)
http://www.thewitness.org/article.php?id=1030

lucretius said...

"popularly libidinous song"

Euphonious, truly euphonious. Keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

Fetish on the Family? Where's the grace?

Carlos said...

Another thing that I have struggled with in the past (and have gone beyond) and have read here is the idea that "There is something about the masculine and the feminine together in relationship that, ultimately, images the Divine." If that is so, then what do you do about celibate individuals? Do they then lose out on this image of God? Can one only imitate that Divine Image if we are in a sexual union with the opposite gender. If that is so, those poor poor monks, nuns, priest, and other celibates in the Christian community. The New Testament does not teach that one has to be married in order to be one with God.

I think, that as a whole we, the CHURCH, together are the image of God on this earth. Be it married or single or straight or homosexual. We, the Church, are one in Christ. We are his body. Christ is one with the Father. In our relationships with each other and with Jesus, we become one with God, and we become that divine image over the earth.

Mike L said...

Sometimes our worldview keeps us from looking at other posibilities. Most of us have the worldview that there are only two possible sexes, male and female. Unfortunately it seems that there has never been a foolproof was of determining maleness/femaleness that works it all cases. Even trying to use genetics does not always work. From what I have read we not only can find xx and xy, but also xyy and xxxy. So how do we apply our standards of hetro/homo-sexuality to these people?

I understand that the state REQUIRES a doctor to declare a persons sex on the birth certificate. As a result of this demand at least some infants are pretty badly mutilated surgically to force them into this mold.

It is easy to argue from Genesis that God created us only male and female, but we argued from scripture that the sun revolved around the earth. Perhaps it is time to think about revamping our worldview on how many sexes there actually are.

Mike L

Left Right Out said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Left Right Out said...

Trying again with better HTML formatting...


Hi Meg,

I highly recommend Jeramy T's essay on whether or not gender separation is part of the image of God. I think it addresses some of the issues you raise. Actually I highly recommend all of his work on homosexuality. It's clear, concise and scholarly.

As a Christian lesbian I appreciate your thoughtfulness on this issue. BTW, are you familiar with She's a lesbian leading an RCA congregation.

Jerad said...

Like most of your other very polite commenters I think I would challenge your assessment that contextual work done on scriptural prohibitions on homosexuality is "exegetical sleight of hand."

I began some years ago by assuming the behavior was a sin but no worse than, lusting in one's heart or being drunk. This perception has been challenged as I have come to know and love homosexual singles and couples. When I wanted to speak up to a lesbian couple and address their sin, the Spirit convicted me. I would have judged a grace-filled relationship through which each partner felt a greater experience of God.

Having seen how monogamous homosexuality has been a blessing in the lives of loved ones, I am more ready to accept the idea that Paul spoke not against monogamous, consensual homosexuality, but against the systemic pedophilia he saw in the Greek trades.

Randy said...

Good thoughts here. As a Calvin Sem grad, I want to applaud Meg for tackling this tough issue.

Honestly, I think the denomiation has it wrong. Reformed became a noun about the time the denomination began. If we adhere to progressive revelation, it should be a 'reforming' church that would really dare to continually struggle with the issues as hand.

The gender issue has been around for 30 years now, and it's still more than just lingering. Louis Smedes faced this issue (homosexuality in the church) in the 1960's, and we are just now really grappling with its consequences. Those are both sad commentaries on a denomination that prides itself on good theology based on the best available exegesis...

With all of that said, we've posted several thoughtful pieces at http://www.emergentwestmichigan.blogspot.com in recent months that may shed some more light...

Blessings!

jill said...

"Anonymous said...
Fetish on the Family? Where's the grace?"

Precisely. That's what Meg's asking....

Anonymous said...

so two wrongs do make a right! ;)
Jim P

Anonymous said...

No, but three rights make a left...really...try it sometime when you're driving...

Phil said...

Jim P,

Criticizing Focus on the Family is not wrong. Dismissing the organization and its ideology from serious consideration is also not wrong. And "Fetish on the Family" is a quick, exact description of what's wrong with their ideology. It's impersonal and, I think, accurate.

"James Dobson shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"--now, that would be wrong. Or "James Dobson smells like a wet dog."

Meg,

This essay is a beautifully focused and worded bit of polemic--some of your best stuff yet. I am not sure that I think the bits of Scripture commonly adduced to declare homosexual sex off-limits really apply well. Unless everybody's going to swear off pork and never engage in any sexual contact during menstruation, the specific rules in Leviticus I think can be dismissed out of hand (though not the principle underlying them--sex-idolatry remains evil, and a very potent force in our society). You were smart and confined yourself to examples from Romans and Corinthians. The Romans passage sounds to me like a description of a society so jaded and so accustomed to using sexuality to numb itself--thus both idolizing and negating it--that they reach the point where, in The Velvet Underground's words, "They'll do it with just 'bout/Anyone." ("Lisa Says," 1968.) I know that this reading is called "the Boswell hypothesis" and that Richard Hays has supposedly refuted it. I need to look again at Hays's arguments, but I don't recall their being quite convincing enough to disincline me from this reading. (Nor weak enough for me to dismiss Hays. Thus I have not stopped worrying about this issue.)

As for the Corinthians passage, aren't there various ways that the word involved have been translated? (Too lazy to look things up.)

As far as I'm concerned you may be right. I would like to be able to say "Let's raise a glass to gay couplehood in the church!" and praise/condemn homosexual relationships on the same basis as one might praise or condemn (mostly condemn, I'm afraid) my own heterosexual relationships. But I still have that spark of doubt. In the meantime I attend church alongside actively homosexual couples (at least I assume they don't just live together as brother and sister, or Bert and Ernie), whose relationships instance fidelity and agape. They are real Christians. The one thing I do know is that if there's a Hell below (Curtis Mayfield, 1970), I would expect to see myself there before I would expect to see most of the practicing Christian homosexuals I've met.

Anonymous said...

phil,
thanks for the insight, but I do think that it is wrong to insult someone in the interest of arguing for grace... (claiming that 'fetish...' is gracious would take a rather dishonest imagination)...

I appreciate her article, but think it would much more powerful without the sarcasm and underhanded attacks...
an ad hominem is a bad argument (and ungracious) no matter who says it or where it comes from.

Just because those you disagree with are ungracious is not license to be as well. If anything it is a call to be more gracious. I would like to see that.
J P

Carlos said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Carlos said...

I see nothing wrong with what Meg has writen in reference to that organization that has turned family life into an idol and the one goal that all Christians should strive for.

Have you read anything written by the great reformers? Have you read anything written by the some of the medievals? Well Meg is following the foot steps of the very great sarcastic Christian theologians of the past who have kept our faith alive. Sarcasm is the spice of rhetoric. At least she does not have a potty mouth like Luther!

Anonymous said...

Sarcasm may be the spice of rhetoric, but that does not baptize it... nor does the fact that the Reformers used it. If we adopt that standard then both women in office and likely this whole discussion of homosexuality would be right out the window.
Instead I think we should be willing to note both the value and mistakes of the past.
Insulting (fetish) is not gracious. This is no defense of Focus on the Family. It is simply pointing out that insults are ungracious and they contribute to stereotypes and divisions. Why would we want to contribute to these things?
We can have fun ripping on people we disagree with, but that will do nothing to unite the body of Christ. And the fact that those we disagree with aren't trying to be gracious is no excuse.
JP

Leighton said...

Out of curiosity, why do you feel it is important to try to find common ground with Christians who consume Focus on the Family's material?

Anonymous said...

Leighton,
I would say because they are also Christians, even if you believe they say and do things that are not gracious to others. Why would we want to be ungracious as well?
I didn't say we should seek common ground with them, just that we should not divide the body of Christ through insults and sarcastic remarks. The church is divided enough by theological issues and the like, why do things that make the divisions worse?
As another, unnamed, poster wrote, "What I am absolutely convinced of though is that when we face God the question will not be whether we got it right and held "orthodox" beliefs but whether we loved God with all we possess and loved each other with the same passion we love ourselves."
This applies not only to homosexuals who have been shunned from the church, but also for those, " Christians who consume Focus on the Family's material".
I just know that as long as different sides of issues make barbed, sarcastic comments, they will likely not listen to or respect each other. Why don't we start treating each other as Christ would like us to treat each other right here on this blog? Even in the way we right about those right-wing leaning, focus on the family folks?
Check out John 17:20-21; Matt 5:43-48.
JP

Phil said...

Actually, I think grace in interacting with fundamentalists is incredibly important for all the reasons mentioned. It's also good rhetorical practice. Most of my family are fundamentalists and they are swell people, and if you mess with them I will mess with you back.

But is a comment insulting if it's both true and relevant to the discussion? I honestly don't think so. To be an insult a comment has to be either untrue/wildly exaggerated or negative in an irrelevant way, and Meg's comment is neither. FOTF fetishizes the family--that is exactly what they do. (And as long as we're talking about being nice to people, no, thank you, I do not have a "dishonest imagination.")

It's a great issue to raise--kindness to one's enemies. It always ought to be on all of our minds. I just honestly don't think this is such an instance.

I've already taken up too much of Meg's bandwidth and am in danger of starting an unedifying pissing contest, and Jim P. is surely a well-intentioned person who simply defines "insult" very differently than I do. (At first I assumed he was just a passerby flinging mud at Meg but his thorough responses belie that notion.) So I'll sign off and offer my best wishes to all involved.

Meg said...

JP

It is strange to me that, of all the controversial stuff argued in this post, my comment about Focus on the Family is the one that drew your attention. For the record, dictionary.com defines fetish as:

1. An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers, especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic religious practices.
2. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.
3. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
4. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.

Your concern as I understand it stems from the assumption that I intended #3. Actually though, my use of the word "fetish" does not have to be sexually loaded at all. I was using it more in keeping with #2 or #4. I was unfamiliar with definition #1. Interesting though. And, according to #2 and #4, I think that Romans 7 gives us ample room to describe James Dobson's agenda as a Fetish on the Family.

Thanks as well to all you who have commented graciously in order to help me refine my own thinking on the topic of Christian response to homosexuality. My ideas are a work in process.

Anonymous said...

Meg,
thanks for the clarification... There are many words which technically mean one thing, but which are offensive when used: two appropriate examples are
1. man: which according to most if not all dictionaries includes a generic human person. Yet many (including many who read this blog) would focus on the exclusive side of the word and ask that people use human or person. I agree with this.
2. faggot: technically includes the definition of a bundle of sticks, but is generally used as a horrible term for a homosexual male.
I didn't mean to make a huge deal out of this, but I think that fetish is generally a negative term, even if it has non negative meanings.
I just think that as Christians we should actively avoid offending other believers, especially those we disagree with.
Like wanting people to use gender neutral language, even though it technically has appropriate definitions, it seems wise to try to avoid being offensive.
(And Phil, if I offended you, I am sorry) JP

niebuhrian said...

Why is it when we attempt to discuss relationships, especially those of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, that it tends to devolve into a discussion of right or wrong concerning sex?

This tends to boil the argument down to textual criticisms of doctrine and scripture, both of which are flawed documents (helpful, but flawed nonetheless). We tend to interpret in other areas - generously I might add - like economics, poverty and divorce and yet when some hetero gets a bug up his or her ass we have to read and listen to particular verses of scripture that shed little light on the relationships we discuss today.

How is the relationship between God and humanity better served by this type of discussion? Furthermore, by referring to relationships as either hetero- or homo- sexual do we do the relationships a disservice by only distinguishing them through the form and act of sex? Is this what we are about? Or might we better serve one another by talking about the quality of relationship that we share with one another, through life and love and the time and people we choose to reveal who it is God has created us to be?

You can prove any point you want to make by pulling a few lines of scripture out of the canon. However, we must find a way of interpreting the whole - to borrow a phrase from Calvin, we must find a pair of spectacles through which we see the whole of the canon and meaning for our exegetical and interpretive tasks. Scripture will not solve this continuing debate, only love will...

Ethan said...

Hello, long time reader, first time commentor. I like the previous comment about having the right pair of spectacles. Trying to view things through a lense of right and wrong rarely seems to work out. In my opinion, (what else would you expect from the comment section) when it feels like I'm in a 'god-damned bitch of an unsatisfactory situation' it means I'm looking for a definitive answer when I don't have the experience or knowledge to even approach an acceptable answer. Really enjoy your blog, thanks for your posts.

Anonymous said...

Sexuality is such a mysterious thing to me. Thank you for your insights!

Muddy said...

Hi Meg, long time reader, 1st time comenter... i can't figure out a way to send you an e-mail, so, to you and anyone else interested, the NY Times did a big article today on seminarians that aren't seeking pastoral work. Maybe it's interesting. Here's the link...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/17/national/17seminary.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Jenny said...

Thank you, Meg for this. It encourages my developing perspective on this issue-- an issue that I have been called upon to address several times at my funny little school-- I'm afraid I seem to be the only one who actually talks about the issue instead of shooting it down with one liners.

I love your mention of Lauren Winner's book "She contends that it is only in the context of creation order and broader, Scriptural metanarratives of covenant and kingdom that these imperatives make sense"

Understanding the metanarrative-- this seems the only place to start...

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Anonymous said...

You go girl!!!What a witness you are for women who aspire to be Pastors in these times!- Rebecca from Canada- a new seminarian student

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